Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast where marriage and family were never meant to be, a game of chance. My name is Kevin Thompson. Don't forget, Change the Odds of Podcast is part of Thrive Media and the Thrive Podcast Network. Go over and check out Ray Johnston. He's had a couple of great guests here lately. I was with him as we interviewed Dallas Jenkins, the producer of the Chosen, and then Miles McPherson has been with him as well. So if you need a little leadership, pick me up. Check out the Ray Johnston Podcast and all the family of the Thrive Podcast Network.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:29]:
A great place to get some good content from some great people. Hey. So today we are going to look at how do we stay happily married in the midst of the holidays. On a previous episode with Dr. Barbara Wilson, we did a Q and a kind of a back and forth of how a family should handle the holidays. But today we're going to zero in specifically on this issue of marriage. Now, before we get there, a couple things. Been hearing great reviews on becoming friends, partners and lovers as you're looking at what you can do in the next year to kind of pick up your marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:03]:
Also how you can be an impact on other people. Just two radical testimonies within the last couple of days of people who have gone through this and have seen tremendous change within their marriage. But it's not just if your marriage is in a bad spot. Every marriage can use a little bit of work to be inspired to push forward, to grow. That oftentimes I talk about too often we get into this question of how can I survive? How can this marriage survive? And that's a vital question for some. But where I want to really focus my time and energy. And one place that I think that you should as well is to really begin to fixate on the question, how good can it be? What would flourishing look like in the midst of our relationship? And becoming friends, partners and lovers is a great way to do that. Find a friend, walk through it with somebody else, videos online, all those things.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:54]:
And then, of course, don't forget, as we're in the holiday season, stay in your lane. It's an important time to be thinking about that. If you have the book review it, that will make your holidays better. But so today we got five things, five things of how to stay happily married in the midst of the holiday season. You know, whenever we think about this idea of Christmas, I think too often we just hear the perception of it's the happiest time of the year. And so the expectation is, hey, this is gonna be Great. And what we forget about is how chaotic it can be, how time consuming it can be, how many demands are upon us, upon our spouse, upon our family specifically. If you have kids at home, the school semester is winding down, you have all the buildup to that, and then by the time school actually gets out, the holidays are right upon us.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:44]:
And for many families, for many couples, the holiday season is actually one of the most difficult seasons of the year. So I think it's going to take some real intention now to begin to figure out how can we not just survive these holidays, but how can we actually thrive in the midst of them and to use the season as a way to replenish our love for each other, also to nourish our family. What do our kids need more during this time of year than to live in a climate in which mom and dad love each other? Well, and if we can give that to them, then everything else, I think, will begin to kind of take care of itself. So one thing to recognize whenever it comes to holiday season is first and foremost, just figure out what does the season look like for you, and to see that it's different for different people. It could be, if one of you is a teacher, that there is this huge buildup with all the grading that has to take place as the end of semester comes, that the holiday season, the Christmas season specifically, is a time in which you're in desperate need of rest. And yet oftentimes you've pushed off a lot of the preparation for the season, so you really don't have time to do so. You need to value rest to some extent. I know for me and Jenny, the Christmas season is an extremely busy time, actually for both of us.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:04]:
And so from the church and pastor standpoint, I always joke that for me, the Christmas season begins whenever I get home on Christmas Eve night and then goes for 24 hours after that. Because everything before that, it is just all work, all people, all my job, a privilege in every way. And yet it's one of the busiest times that we have of the entire year. I think last year, I think I got home on Christmas eve at about 10:30 at night, having worked all day, having worked the previous 10 days straight. That was the beginning of the season. For me to recognize there has to be less expectation if this is a really busy time of year. But for us, not only is it busy for me, but then Jenny, now owning her own advertising company, there's so many details that go in not only to preparing for the next quarter and making sure all her Clients are taken care of for the beginning of January because there's not a lot of communication that happens with television stations and radio stations between Christmas and New Year. So she has to do all of January's work, has to happen in December.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:10]:
Obviously, December is a busy time for all of retail. But then on top of that, she owns her own business. And so now she's dealing with all the end of year tax issues and to make sure that we spend our money in the proper way so we're not going to pay too much in taxes or there are other things that we need to do. And so for both of us now, it's an extremely busy time, which means we have to recognize that, hey, the stress is going to be high before the Christmas holiday. How can we make sure after the holiday to take some time to relax, to kind of rejuvenate, to catch up? We have to understand that there might be a little bit more separation between the two of us in the days leading up to it. And that's just something that happens. We understand it. So if this is one of your first holidays together, I think one thing that you need to do in the midst of the process is just begin to recognize not every family celebrates the holidays the same way.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:01]:
And it's different patterns, different rhythms, different seasons of life. So just begin to recognize what does it look like for the two of you, without any expectation or comparison of what it's like for other people in this unique season of life. What is this going to be like for the two of you? So here we go. We got five things. These are five very practical steps of how you can stay happily married in the midst of the holiday season. And it begins with number one is this. Remember two and four. So I want you to remember two and four.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:36]:
And here's what that means. I want you to remember to ask for help. And then I want you to remember to ask for help. So I want you to ask to help and for help. So whenever it comes to the holiday season, obviously extremely busy. Let's go. Gender stereotypes. Many times a lot of the workload is taken on by the wife, unfairly so, but so much pressure now goes to her.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:02]:
So what needs to happen is the husband. And in your relationship, the genders could be reversed, but the one who tends to do take on less of the responsibility for Christmas, you need to constantly remind yourself to ask that you are willing to help, you're willing to do something. You may not know exactly what to do, but to be asking questions. How is a way That I can help you. What is something I can do? What is one thing I can take off your plate today? It's a great question to ask all the time. It's a great question to ask specifically in the holiday season, what's one thing I can do for you today? If you're leaving for the office that day or taking a trip somewhere, just say, hey, what's one thing I can do for you today? So you have to learn to ask to help. How can I help you in this situation? How can I be involved? Turn the TV off, put the phone down, get in the kitchen, start cleaning something, get a vacuum, start vacuuming something, wrap something, whatever it looks like. Is there a chore that you normally don't do that now during the season that you can take on? So I am now going to look at this idea of ways to help.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:06]:
But then there's also a concept that from the spouse's standpoint, they have to be willing to ask for help. And so I'm going to ask to help, they're going to ask for help. So not just take it all on your own shoulders, not just assume your spouse isn't going to do anything and in so doing, maybe grow bitter, possibly, but instead to very clearly vocalize, hey, here are some things that I need help with and are you willing to do this? And how can we begin to navigate this together? And whatever that looks like, this issue of help that we need to really carry out this whole idea of a meaningful partnership in the midst of the holiday season, that if we're truly to be friends, partners and lovers, if there's added work during the season, how can we equally carry the load of this? One thing I talk about in the guidebook, it's kind of a hot topic in marriage these days. We probably need to do a whole episode on it at some point. It's just this idea of mental load. In other aspects, there's an idea of an emotional load as well. We think about workload, who's doing the work. Okay, we understand that that should be navigated out, negotiated out in a proper way.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:19]:
But there is also a mental load, which is the idea of if I'm always the one having to remember everything, that takes a toll. There's a toll on that. Even if. Let's switch it to make it more appropriate here. If Jenny always has to remember, hey, the kids have to have a dentist appointment. Even if I take the kids on occasion, I'm doing part of the work, but Jenny is still doing aspects of that as well. Just carrying within her mind the memory that this has to happen and then setting it up and doing all those things. But if I'm not very careful, I can just write the story of, oh, I took them, so I did the work not recognizing that, no, we actually both did.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:59]:
And the dangerous thing within marriage is if you're not very careful, the mental load can unfairly fall on one spouse over an equal balance of what's going on. So we have to make sure that whenever it comes to help, that we're helping each other, not just in the activities that are actually done, but also in the memory of what needs to take place, in making sure and setting up and guaranteeing that those things are going to happen. There's also the idea of emotional load, which this is a whole different episode for another time. But too often, the wife, the mom, is expected to be the emotional caretaker of everybody. And what happens is we are losing a sense of partnership because the husband, the father, is not also playing that emotional role of caretaking, of being compassionate, of being empathetic. And in general, there's a lot of men that we struggle to know how to do that, but that doesn't remove our responsibility for that. And so how do we stay happily married within the midst of the holiday season? Five things. The first thing is remember two and four.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:02]:
Remember to help and remember to ask for help. Number two, love them, but don't be led by them. And who is the them here? Primarily, the them that I'm talking about is those in your family who are least emotionally mature. I've written about this extensively, but here's one thing that I've noticed in years in working with families, most families are led by, especially during the holidays, most families are led by the least emotionally mature person. Now, how can that possibly happen? Well, here's what happens. Whoever is the least emotionally mature person, oftentimes, if they don't get their way, will make a scene, they'll throw a fit, they'll protest in some way. And they've learned the reason they do that is they've learned that if I throw this fit, if I protest, if I even threaten to throw this fit, everybody else will submit to what I want and they will try to keep the peace, which means I now get what it is that I actually desire. And unknowingly, what many families do is they submit the leadership and the wellbeing of the family to the least emotionally mature person, and that's the person that's in charge.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:18]:
Don't do that. Just don't do that. Do not allow yourself to get into a pattern where in the name of keeping peace, everybody is suffering because that one cousin, that one aunt, that one sibling, that one spouse is just emotionally unstable. And if we don't navigate this exactly right, they're going to cause a scene, and nobody wants that. Now, we have to love people, and clearly we need to love people and be loving toward them. There's absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever. But just begin to notice how easy it is to cross the line from loving somebody to actually unknowingly putting them in charge to what we are actually taking place. And it just makes no sense to have the least emotionally mature person in charge of the whole.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:16]:
Instead, what needs to happen, clear boundaries need to be set. We need to be loving and compassionate. All those things. Obviously, if there's somebody within the family that has some special needs, some specific needs, obviously we need to cater to them the best that we possibly can. If there's a person on the autism scale or spectrum, and maybe noise is a big thing for them, absolutely. We need to turn the noise down and have a space in which they can be a part of everything that's going on. I'm not talking about that. What I am talking about is if there's an uncle who just is prone to make a huge scene if he doesn't get everything exactly his way, just clarify, hey, here's how we're doing things, here's the space in which that can happen.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:05]:
If he begins to respond in an inappropriate way, set a very clear boundary of that's not acceptable, that we're not going to do it in that way. If one family member just demands it has to be at my house and I have to be in charge. But that's not what's in the best interest of everybody. Just explain, here's where we're doing it, we've gotten together, here's where we're doing it, here's what we've decided on. You are welcome. We'd love to have you here. But don't necessarily just submit to whatever the least emotionally mature person thinks is the right thing to do. Love them, but don't be led by them.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:42]:
Number three, reject the idea of guilt. So notice this, and we have to draw a line here. In the holiday season, grief is always present. No matter the experience, no matter what is taking place, grief is always an element and an aspect of the holiday season. We talked about this before. Even good things bring grief right alongside. And so the illustration I always use is, you walk your kindergartner into class for the very first time. As you walk out, tears will probably fill your eyes and there will be an aspect of grief because you recognize that you are changing seasons.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:20]:
It's a good thing. It's a great thing. As a matter of fact, if you weren't walking that child into class, something would have gone horribly wrong and that would have its own grief. But recognize, even the good thing brings grief. And so their grief will be an element, an aspect of every Christmas season. No matter the situation. There are loved ones who are no longer with you. There are expectations that have been unmet in some way.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:45]:
Time has passed. And so what used to be so fun when the kids were little, now they're bigger. It's not as exciting. It's fine, it's fun, but it's just different now. Time just changes. And grief is an element of that. However many times, because we don't know how to process grief, rather than processing that grief and experiencing that grief and living that grief, what we will do is we will try to avoid it. And one of the ways many people try to avoid grief is by guilting other people into doing what it is that they want.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:19]:
Because they think not only is that better and good for the whole, but then beyond that, they think it will keep them from some of the pain. Just reject the guilt. I know that I'll spend time back in Arkansas over the holiday season and of no pressure of anybody else, solely me and nobody else, because we live in California now, and my time there is limited. Much of the time I feel guilty when I'm at one person's house because I'm not at the other person's house. And I have to remind myself, that's false guilt. Don't feel it. Nobody's putting that on you. Even if they were, I shouldn't own that in any way.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:01]:
I'm doing the best I can to be with my family, to be with my friends, to see everybody that I can see as much as I possibly can. All that's not on me. If they want more time, they can come see me as well. But we're doing the best we can. And yet our window is short. All four of us are home. There's different people that we want to see. We have my mom and we have my dad and we have Jenny's mom and her family.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:24]:
And then to split time between all of those, we're never going to maximize our time with everybody. And so just reject the feeling of guilt. And so reject what you're just gonna Feel naturally that nobody else maybe puts onto you. But then also don't take on the guilt that somebody else tries to heap upon you. You just reject it and recognize, hey, they're working through some things. They're processing through this pain. They don't want to face the grief that is there. Understandably so.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:56]:
And yet I'm not going to be moved by their manipulation. I'm not going to be moved by their guilt. One of the things that I tell families all the time is husband and wife. You figure out how you're going to handle the holidays for you and for your family. Go back to stay in your lane. What is mine, what's theirs, what's God's, what's mine. Where I spend the holidays, how I spend the holidays for me and my family, that belongs solely to me and Jenny and nobody else. Ella and Silas get a vote in that.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:29]:
No doubt they're old enough now. They can make their own choices to some extent, but ultimately, where Jenny and I are are solely our decision, solely our responsibility. Now, as we make those decisions, others might be disappointed and unhappy about how we're making those choices. For instance, here'd be a great example. Where are you going to spend Christmas morning? Okay, you can't be everywhere. You can only be in one spot. What spot are you going to be in? It's very common when a husband and wife make that choice of where they're going to be, other people are rightly disappointed. There's nothing wrong with being disappointed.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:08]:
That's fair. You shouldn't guilt other people for feeling disappointed. Give them space to be sad, recognize the grief and the sorrow that is there. All that's fair. What is unfair is for some outsider to try to guilt or manipulate you into changing your decision in order to appease them. So a mom, a dad, a mother in law, a father in law, a grandmother, an aunt, an uncle, they do not have the right to come to you and say, hey, I hear you're spending Christmas morning at your house. That is so unfair to grandma. That's just manipulation.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:46]:
That is now a misuse of power rather than love. Not only should you not be moved by it, don't then take on that guilt. And so I often tell couples the way to navigate through that is to simply say this. If they say, you know, they try to get you to second guess or to make a different decision, you just respond by saying, hey, we're happy with our decision. Thank you. And chances are, most of the time, if somebody, if a family member, and oftentimes it's not the family member that does it directly. Oftentimes they try to triangulate somebody else into the picture, get them on their side, and then send that person toward you to try to manipulate you to come to their side as well. And so grandma may not be happy so that she might send a sibling to you.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:32]:
And that sibling comes to you and says, hey, I don't think it's right that you're going to spend Christmas morning at your house and not with Grandma. You say in that moment, hey, we are happy with our decision, thank you. At that moment. Oftentimes what happens is that person will try to engage in the conversation even more. You refuse the engagement because if you open the door to the conversation, you're actually showing them, I might change my mind, I might go a different direction based on this inappropriate behavior. Instead, as they try to engage even more, you come back again with the line, we're happy with our decision, thank you. And most of the time, most people, by the third time you say, we're happy with our decision, thank you, rather than engaging in the conversation, they will begin to catch on that, hey, they're not willing to have this conversation at this moment. So in what's going on, reject guilt, feel conviction where you need to feel conviction.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:24]:
If you've made mistakes, then you're experiencing the consequences of that. If you say the wrong thing, make amends for it, all those things, but in the sense of false guilt, just reject it. So we're gonna remember help to help and ask for help. We're gonna love them, not be led by them. We're not gonna let the least emotionally person in our family lead us. We're gonna reject guilt. And then number four, help somebody. It's an amazing thing.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:48]:
I mean, the Christmas season is in part a season in which we're supposed to look, be and into this concept of how can we assist other people. It becomes a powerful thing if you can just help people. It begins to take the fixation off of yourself and puts it onto other people. For Jenny and I, one of our family values has long been kind of this concept that, look, because we're the pastor, the ministry, we're surrounded by great, loving people. We are going to get opportunities that we do not deserve. And as we do, as God blesses us, we want to make sure that we bring along others in that blessing to share that with them. And so if we get given a trip in some way, how can we take part of the money that we would have paid for that and give it to somebody else, to where we're still benefiting greatly and at the same time, somebody else is benefiting greatly. If our salaries have increased and, and we're living a way of life that we never expected that we would live.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:52]:
Okay, how can we use those resources beyond what we would naturally give to the church? How can we use those resources to assist other people? And now, specifically during the Christmas season, how can we, with intention, take a moment to look beyond ourselves, into the need of somebody around us and without any sense of expectation or quid pro quo or reciprocity instead, just this concept as a sheer gift. We're going to assist you in this moment. And maybe you know it, maybe you don't know it. Whatever, it doesn't matter. What matters in the end is we're going to look beyond ourselves. So in years past, I pastored a family in which every Christmas season they would talk about people without people. Who is it that's around us that in the holiday season maybe isn't blessed with the family dynamics that we are blessed with? Okay, can we invite them in to our family without the detriment of our own family experience? Or is there another time, another aspect, another hour that we can take aside to make sure that we are now giving the overflow of our relational resources, our relational wealth now, and letting somebody else be blessed by what we actually have? Who is somebody that this Christmas season, you can actually help, be intentional about that. And I think it will help your relationship.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:17]:
And then finally, number five, plan some fun. Just figure it out. So for me and Jenny, it's just the reality of, look, it's going to be a dead sprint from the day that I'm filming this all the way to Christmas Eve night at about 11pm Dead sprint. So during that sprint, we have to recognize we're going to be more tired than normal. We might feel a little bit more of a disconnect than normal, although we'll work hard to not make that happen. But we shouldn't be surprised if it does happen. We need to be more thoughtful with each other, more graceful with each other. We need to be more intentional.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:55]:
How can I help you during this season? Most of the season that we have, it's busy for one of us, not busy for both of us. This is a season in which we are both being maxed out and we actually both would find it extremely, extremely helpful if the other one had more freedom to help us. But we have to recognize the other person doesn't have that. And so how can we leverage other Resources to get us the assistance that we actually need. But beyond that, it's a dead sprint to Christmas Eve night. Sprint. Love each other well, but then once that sprint comes to an end, then back off. And then I would say one of my favorite times of the entire year is the week between Christmas and New Year's where I don't work.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:44]:
She does some things with the end of her business and taxes and all of that, but it's a different type of work. And the family is there. And we just. We try to get into some very intentional patterns and rhythms that we wouldn't have otherwise. That oftentimes, whenever I get home from work, I'll work at night, she'll work at night. During the Christmas season, we tend not to do that. We might be more prone to watch a movie to make sure we have time to relax in a hot tub during the day to go for a walk, which during this time of year, we very rarely get the opportunity to do so. But whatever it looks like for you as a husband and wife, plan some time together.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:23]:
Plan some. It may not be a bad idea if your kids are little. You know, college kids are home, high school kids have more freedom. This might be a time that you can actually use a babysitter and maybe find a babysitter easier than what you would in other seasons. A lot of people want some extra money. If you have the resources. This might be a time in which you're intentional about that, to take a date without the kids. But then, even as a family, make sure you're finding ways to develop fun together so that not only can you create these memories, but then you be rejuvenated.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:54]:
Now as a family, this isn't an exhaustive list by any means, but I think the key is to recognize that the holiday season will either be a net positive for your relationship or a net negative for that relationship. And my caution is don't just assume because it's the hap. Happiest time of the year that it's necessarily going to be a positive. Because I think for most couples without intention, the holiday season, because of the busyness, the expectation, the demands, the holiday season for most couples without intention is actually a drain on their relationship. And then they enter into the next year a little bit more disconnected than what they thought. Whereas with just a little bit of intention, this holiday season, not only can you partner well with each other, making this an easier season on each other than what it would be otherwise, then beyond that, you can actually have a connection with each other and then, as you have that connection, that will begin to motivate you forward into next year, making the year to come much easy, much easier. So don't forget the issue of help. Ask to help.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:03]:
Ask for help. Love them. Don't be led by them. Don't allow the least emotionally people in your family to lead. Reject all forms of false guilt. Help somebody. And then finally, plan for fun. If you can do these five things in the holiday season, I think you'll be set apart and set forward to the relationship you're going to have in 2025, and you'll have a happy holiday season.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:28]:
You'll remain happily married during that season, and it will help us change the odds of marriage.