Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Change the Odds, a podcast where marriage was never meant to be a game of chance. I am Blaine's wife.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:07]:
Oh. And I am Adrienne's husband.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:09]:
And we are here today without father Kevin.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:12]:
It's kind of sad, but exciting.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:13]:
Yeah, I think it could be nice.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:15]:
It's fun.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:15]:
I mean, I miss him. I do too, in like a father figurely way. Friend, maybe an uncle.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:20]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:22]:
Okay, well, so we got to hear him speak on communication this last yesterday. Yeah, on Wednesday. And it was really good. And he had these four chairs that he was bouncing around on.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:36]:
I'd never seen him move so much.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:38]:
I know. Had to get his steps in, I guess. Needed to work off those cokes he's drinking. Okay, should we enter?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:44]:
I think we go right into it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:45]:
Okay. And then we can discuss it after. Okay, so here we are, over to Kevin.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:50]:
So I'm gonna use these chairs now as a kind of illustration to help us understand what communication really is all about and just a mindset of it. So Kerry Patterson, in his book Crucial Conversations, which is one of my favorite books of all time that I didn't write, Kerry Patterson and the other writers talk about what he calls the path to action. So why do people do what they do? Why do I do what I do? Why do others do what they do? And you can use this as an interpretive tool, not only to understand yourself, but also to understand others. And I can tell you, raising two teenagers, I use this path to action all the time to try to figure out, all right, what's going on in their brains right now, why are they doing what they're doing? Because every action makes logical sense to the person doing it. Doesn't mean it is logical, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do, but it makes sense to that person. And this will give us some understanding of what that looks like. And so Patterson is going to start with this kind of basic idea. And I'm gonna use these chairs now that every action is based on a feeling that you feel and then you act.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:08]:
It's a two step process of what's going on. So if you wanna know why do you do what you do? And if you wanna understand why other people are doing what they're doing, you have to ask yourself the question, what feeling would lead to that action? What's the emotion that's underlying at this moment? Now, any of you that have been with us long enough, you've come to learn and to understand that emotions are not bad, they are not evil, they are not something in contradiction with logic. Instead, they are all tied together. That emotion is always giving us insight and understanding that maybe we wouldn't have on our own. So we don't want to be afraid of emotions. At the same time, we don't have to simply be led wherever our emotions go, that we can actually impact what we're feeling in the moment. But every feeling then leads to an action. So every action now is based on an emotion, based on a feeling.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:03]:
And let me just hit an objection that's in the room. There's an objection in the room in which some are saying, well, that's not true for men. Men have a problem with this because we are not as naturally in touch with our feelings, our emotions. Many of us kind of grew up in a spot where it wasn't right for men to have emotions other than anger or excitement in sports. Those were the two allowed emotions, but nothing else. It's actually. Some research has actually begun to show that it's possible that men actually feel more than women. And that overwhelms us.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:42]:
And so we don't know how to handle those emotions. But many of us now do not have the concept of the words that we need to use the feelings that we actually have at this exact moment. But that doesn't take away from the fact that every feeling, that every feeling now leads to an action. So I'm watching the Arkansas game and I feel frustrated. So what do I do? I turn the TV off, I throw the remote, right? I do all sorts of things, right? I feel and then I act. So if you want to figure out why somebody is doing what they're doing, just ask the question, what are they feeling? Okay, so then the question becomes, all right, where do our feelings come from? What is it that we're actually feeling in the moment? So what Patterson is going to say is that we see and we hear, so we take in information. We use our senses to take in information. So we see and we hear and then we feel and then we act.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:50]:
I call this, by the way, the hamstring talk. So we're going to see and hear. We're going to use our senses to take in information, to experience this world where they're going to feel feelings, then those feelings are going to lead to an action of some sort. But think about this. Imagine it's a typical kind of week, right? And so Jenny and I have an ongoing kind of text message thread that we generally run communication that goes on. But it's not unusual at all for me to call Jenny and her not to answer. So I'm the one that will call and check in throughout the day. She generally doesn't call and check in.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:30]:
She's got too much going on. I'll call and check in, but if she doesn't answer, I don't think much about it. She's busy. We'll connect later. But every now and then, she'll call to check in on me. And whenever that happens, I either answer immediately or if I'm in a meeting, I'll wait and I will call her back. But imagine if you had a day in which Jenny called and I didn't answer. So around lunchtime, she calls me, I didn't answer, and I never called back.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:56]:
She wouldn't think a thing about it. I get home that night and, you know, we do all the things. We're with the kids, we have dinner, we do all the things that we're going to do. And near the end of the night, Jenny goes, oh, you know what? I gotta do some laundry. Hey, do you want me to wash those jeans? And I say, yeah, that'd be great. So I go upstairs, change clothes, bring the jeans down, And Jenny, knowing me now, before she throws the jeans into the washer, she's gonna check the pocket, right? And so she pulls out a receipt. And that receipt says, holiday Inn, noon today. Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:34]:
You have seen and heard. What do you think? Jenny feels suspicious? Betrayed. Anger. Right. So what does Jenny do? She questions, interrogates, yells, screams, murder. Murder. That's exactly right. So Jenny's from Oklahoma.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:07]:
There's not a warning shot. There's just a shot. Right. But what if I told you, even though I'm not gonna have you see or hear anything different, what if, just based on what I told you, that Jenny, what she actually felt in that moment was compassion, pride, appreciation, and that what she actually did, her response in that moment was to say, hey, Kevin, I bet you've had a really long day. Why don't I clean the kitchen and you go watch the game? Or, here, let me take care of this, and you go out and just spend some time in a hot tub by yourself? What if she had a radically different response than what you thought? Why is that? How is it that you and I can see and hear the exact same information and yet have such radically different feelings that lead to radically different actions? The key is this, that Patterson does not say that the path to action is three steps. It's not that you see and hear. You feel and you act. Instead, there is this other step.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:18]:
And so what Patterson is going to say, and this is what I think that you need to write down in your book and really kind of grasp and take a hold of the path to action is four steps. You see and hear, you tell yourself a story. You interpret, you feel, and you act. So every action now is based on a feeling. But notice, our feelings are not solely based on what you and I would call facts. Our feelings are not solely the response of facts. Instead, our feelings now are the byproducts of our interpretation of the facts. It's the byproducts of the stories that we're telling ourselves, of what we have seen and heard.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:18]:
And it is now the presence of this second chair that I think is the most important communication tool, not only in our marriages, in our parenting, in our workplaces, in every aspect of our lives, that to the extent that you and I can recognize the presence of the second chair, understand other people are using it, utilizing it, recognize that we are using it ourselves, and then to properly channel and function this second chair, we can communicate in unbelievable ways. But when you and I live in ignorance that our actions are based on the feelings that come from our interpretations, and when you and I just assume that our feelings are solely based on the facts, all communication begins to cease. Because notice this. If everything you feel is 100% based on facts, you could never have a wrong feeling. And if you could never have a wrong feeling and your actions are based on feelings, then actually you could never act in the wrong way. And yet I just told you a story in which we all saw and heard the exact same thing. And yet the feelings that I think Jenny would have and the feelings that y'all think Jenny would have are radically different. And the actions that I think Jenny would take and the actions that y'all think Jenny would take are radically different, even though we've seen and heard the same thing.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:57]:
Well, the issue now is this issue of what story does Jenny tell herself. Now, here's how I think that scenario would go. Jenny would see the receipt. She would remember the phone call. There would be questions, but notice this. She would also see and remember 25 years of faithfulness. She would also see and remember my heart and who I am and what I do and what my job requires. And so her interpretation would then be, oh, you know what? I bet you somebody called the church today and abusive relationship, or maybe there's a fire, or maybe somebody was in town from out of town and their loved one's sick, and Kevin probably went by the hotel, and now she knows me he probably meant to take out the church credit card because he's not that giving, but he accidentally used ours.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:01]:
And so she would feel this sense of empathy and pride and compassion and. And love, which would cause her to act in such a way. Now, Jenny is no fool. So what would Jenny actually do? She would not accuse or belittle or be mean or murder. Immediately she would come to me and she would say, hey, Kevin, I saw this receipt. I called you today. You didn't answer. Help me understand what was your day like? So no threat, no attack.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:37]:
And yet, notice this, no just Pollyanna kind of assumption. Oh, my husband can never do that. But just a very legitimate kind of approach to. I now want to verify the story I'm telling myself I think is probably right, but it's so important. And the more diverse the outcomes could be, and I don't know if it can get more diverse than I love you more, I've killed you. Those are pretty diverse outcomes. The more diverse the outcomes could be, the more important it becomes to verify is the story I'm telling myself true. And so Jenny would come to me and basically say, I need to see and hear more information to make sure my interpretation is right so that I know that what I'm feeling is right, so that my actions now are right.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:33]:
Let's think about this. How we could use this in kind of a business term. So imagine you're a business owner. And so you run a business. Multiple employees. Your office opens every day, eight to five. You gotta have the phones answered. Your business is now dependent upon that.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:50]:
And so you hire a young, just kind of go getter kind of person. 23, 24. Right. Maybe out of college or trying to figure out life. And. And everything's great. And they work hard and they do. Everything's great.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:02]:
But a pattern has started showing up that instead of getting there at 8:00, they've been rolling in at 8:30. Okay, so what have you seen and heard? The job starts at 8. They're supposed to start at 8. They start at 8 in the past. Now they're not starting at 8. It's 8:30. Okay, what story are you telling yourself of what you just heard? Well, they don't care. They're not motivated kids these days.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:29]:
So what do you feel? You feel taken advantage of. You feel frustrated. You feel another thing kind of being heaped upon you that you don't want to do. All right, so what do you do? Well, you go and you have a conversation with them. You remind them of the Protocol, you threaten them, you fire them, right? But before you do that, let's say you have a conversation. Let's say you see and hear, you feel, I mean, you interpret, you feel, you act, you go and you have a conversation. Say, hey man, so important that we'd be here at 8:00. Phone starts ringing at 8:00.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:04]:
We're losing customers if we're not answering the phone at 8:00. I really need you to be here at 8:00. And so the next day, Dave or Sarah, whatever her name is, she shows up at 7:59 and you think, what a boss I am. Look at me, I've handled the situation. And so Monday morning, 7:59, Tuesday morning 8:05, Wednesday morning 8:15, Thursday, 8:30, Friday, 8:35, a week after your boss intervention, this person is now actually showing up later than they were before. And so what do you do in this case? Here's what you don't do. You don't go back and have the same conversation you just had. You already had that, it didn't work.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:51]:
Here's what you do. You now walk for them this path to action you now help to explain. Here's what's going on in my mind and what's happening here is I'm going to reveal to you the inside. We're going to look at this in the next section. I'm going to reveal to you what is hidden from you. And that is my emotion, the stories I'm telling myself, all these things you can't know for yourself. So I'm gonna now give this to you. And so I want to walk this path to action for them.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:21]:
And so I'm gonna say, all right, here's what I've seen. I know you can show up at 8:00. You've done it before. You know how important it is that we show up at 8:00. You verified it and yet now you're not showing up at that time. And so here's my interpretation. My interpretation is maybe you don't care. Maybe you actually don't want this job and you're afraid to quit because you don't want to dishonor me and you're actually trying to get fired.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:46]:
And if that's the case, I can assist you greatly in this moment. I just need to know. You lay out the potentials of what's going on in your mind and then you say, now here's how that makes me feel. I feel taking advantage of. I feel lied to. I feel like you're kind of coming after my good Christian heart, thinking that I have to take this on no matter what. But here's what I'm about to do. I'm going to let you go, or I'm going to write you up and give you one last warning, whatever it is you're about to do.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:18]:
But notice this. You don't stop there. Then you ask this question. Can you help me understand what you're saying? Is, is there anything that you could show me or tell me that would actually change my interpretation of what I have seen and heard, which will change my emotion, which will actually change my action? And so back in Arkansas, they didn't have a lot of resources all the time. And so I did a lot of corporate training, right? And so I would give these examples, and one time I heard this story in which the very same scenario that I'm using here, young lady who was used to showing up on time suddenly wasn't showing up on time. Intervention happened. She started showing up on time, and then she stopped showing up on time. And so the boss called me.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:11]:
He said, all right, what should I do? I said, okay, we've talked about the path to action. All right, let's start for you. If you're trying to interpret what somebody else is doing, run it backwards. Okay. What's the action that you're seeing? Well, she's not showing up on time. All right. Have you seen actions before where she was showing up on time? Yes. Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:29]:
Okay. So she's not showing up on time. So what is it that she could be feeling that would cause her not to show up on time? She could feel like this job is drudgery, and it doesn't matter. She could feel like, you'll take care of her no matter what's going on. All right, what story is she telling herself that could lead to those feelings? All right, let's process that. Okay. What has she seen and heard that could lead to that story? So as you're looking at somebody else, as I look at Ellen Silas all the time, and I can see, because here's what I love about action. You can see action.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:03]:
We can't always see feelings, and we can't see interpretations. And we can see some of what people have seen or heard, but not all of it. So the fact that this is so visible gives me information that I can now begin to use to try to work this process backwards. But when I'm trying to explain myself to others, when I'm trying to explain myself to Jenny, then what I want to do is walk this path to action and tell her, here's what I've seen and heard, here's my interpretation, here's what I feel based on that interpretation. Now here's what I'm going to do. Help me understand, is there anything I'm missing here? And so this guy from Arkansas calls me up and I said, hey, he wants to fire the girl is what he wants to do. And I said, okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to walk this path to action with her.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:50]:
But whenever you get to the end, instead of saying, because of that I'm going to fire you, I want you to say this. And if I've gotten the story right, I do think we're going to have to let you go. But help me understand. I love that phrase, by the way. Help me understand. Is there anything here that you could show me or tell me that would change my opinion? And she broke. And she said, yeah, my mom got cancer. And so I go by there every morning and I make sure that she has her medication.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:27]:
And so what has changed is that routine. And here recently, she's gotten worse, and it's taking more time, and sometimes it takes a long period of time. And I'm trying to get here the best I can, but it's just so demanding. And he sat back in amazement, and he's like, why didn't you tell me this when we had the first conversation? And she said, well, don't you remember two years ago when you fired Sally because her mom had cancer? And he goes, what? And she goes, yeah, Sally's mom had cancer and she got fired because she wasn't here on time. And he's like, no, Sally embezzled from the company. But I couldn't say that. And because I couldn't say, here, this is what he's saying, because I couldn't say what actually happened. Guess what? When Sally was let go, and people asked Sally why she was let go, she wasn't forthright in saying, because I was embezzling from the company.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:32]:
And she lied and said, well, it's because my mom has cancer to make her feel better. But notice this, when she did that, every employee saw and heard that. So now everything that was going on in that company was being. The interpretation was being influenced by actual false information, which was leading to the wrong emotion, which was actually leading to the wrong action. And had he simply come in and just assumed he had gotten it 100% right and carried out what he was justified in doing, it would have further concreted in their people's minds the wrong interpretation that they had been having all along. But because he was smart enough to pause and go, hang on, is there anything I could have gotten wrong here? You see, here's the amazing thing about the human brain. The whole wordle, Wheel of Fortune, all of these are actually. These games are actually based off the human brain's ability to take limited information and to fill in the rest of the gap.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:39]:
The thing that amazes me about this second chair is you and I have the ability to take very limited information and just from that, take that information and then rightly draw conclusions that then lead us to the right feelings, which actually lead us to the right actions. It's amazing. And some people are better than others, no doubt. There are some people who, you know, you're watching Wheel of Fortune, I mean, because this is what Jenny and I do at this stage in our lives. Now you're watching Wheel of fortune, and two letters pop up and they're spouting out what the right answers are. Others of us struggle a little bit more in that area. But whatever is your area of expertise, people pay you for your ability to do this, to take limited information and to from that, generally draw the proper conclusion, which leads to the right emotion, which leads to the right action. And it is amazing what the human brain can do and the stories that we can properly write, except when we don't, and we often won't, we very easily can take limited information and write the wrong story.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:51]:
And based off what happened in our family of origin, or based off of a past relationship, or based off all this information that we've taken in in our past, we see limited things and we write the wrong story, which means we feel the wrong feeling, which means we act in the wrong way. And I literally just explained Facebook to you. Now, this plays out in every relationship, but especially marriage. And when you and I can start recognizing the presence of the second chair and literally start seeing how our own brains are formulating ideas and concepts, and that there are things you take some of your strongest opinions, some of your strongest interpretations. There are some things that I could show you or tell you that would radically change those. But the danger is, when you and I don't recognize the second chair is at play, that means we are always assuming we've already seen it all and heard it all. And whenever you and I think that we've seen it all and heard it all, that means the feelings that we have, we're gonna feel extremely justified in those Feelings and then the actions that we take. How can you debate those actions? Because they're based on the feelings, then the feelings are based on the facts.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:30]:
When they're not based on the facts, they're based on our interpretation. And yet, when you and I begin to have an awareness of this process and to give space for other people to explain why they're doing what they're doing and to process it back and to be able to explain from our own standpoint of, here's what I'm seeing and hearing, here's the interpretation I'm writing, here's the feeling I have, here's, here's the action I'm going to take. But to be open. Instead of just diving in and doing that, to actually be open and to say, now help me understand, is there anything you could show me or tell me that will change my interpretation, change my feeling, which will change my action so that we are not now enslaved by the stories that we're telling ourselves, but instead of recognizing, okay, we can now take control of this and to make sure that we're all walking this path to action, but let's make sure that we're doing it in a way that's most loving and kind and compassionate and grace filled toward others. Here's where this came for me about 20 years ago back in Arkansas, I was lead pastor at Wright Church and we were horrible at communication. And I sat around the staff table one day and I said, this is hilarious. We are all a bunch of communicators and we are horrible at communication. And so I happened to pick up Terry Patterson's book Crucial Conversations and read through it.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:58]:
And then we took our staff through it. And after we took our staff through it, what we began to say are things like this. The story I'm telling myself is, notice whenever you say that, you're announcing to whomever you're talking to, hey, I'm in the second chair right now. I just want you all to know this is my interpretation. Which by saying that means I could be wrong. But I can't avoid this chair. This chair is necessary. But I recognize that I haven't seen it all and heard it all, but this is my present interpretation.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:32]:
The story I'm telling myself is, now think about it. If I have an employee that comes and sits in front of me and says, kevin, hey, here's what I'm struggling with and here's what I've seen and heard, and the story I'm telling myself is this. I feel this way and I'm about to do that, then I have this great understanding of where they are. And there are times in which I look at them and I go, no, no, no, here, let me show you or tell you something more that maybe that will change your interpretation. And then, let's face it, as a boss, as a leader, there were times in which I had to sit back and listen to that and go, yep, that's exactly what you have seen and heard and what you are telling yourself and what you feel and what you act. And I can't tell you what would actually change that story. And so you're going to have to look at me and literally my leadership credibility with you is going to take a shot right here. Because as a leader I can't tell you everything I've seen and heard.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:28]:
Do you recognize that there are times that Ray and Mark, Kurt, Andrew, your pastors, that there are times in which in order to protect others, to act in a God honoring way, There are times in which they cannot tell you nor show you everything they know and they are willing to take a shot on their own reputation to handle a situation right, knowing that you're going to write the wrong story, feel the wrong feeling and act in the wrong way. Now, they don't judge you for it. They recognize it's just an aspect of leadership. You cannot be a leader unless you're willing to do that at times in the same way with your kids, face it, depending on the age of your kids, there are times in which they're gonna see and hear one thing and tell themselves a story and feel and act and it's not legitimate in any way, but because of where they are developmentally, you cannot show them or tell them yet. And you just have to allow it to be and trust that over time that they're gonna figure it out and that you're gonna show them. They're gonna hear from you and see from you more things that's going to impact their story. This path to action truly can be a transformative aspect on every element of your relationship. And here's what I want you to do.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:41]:
I want you to incorporate two phrases, you've already probably written them down, but two phrases into your regular conversation, specifically with your significant other, but also with others. The first phrase is help me understand that is assertive communication. You're not being passive aggressive, you're not going, well, I'm sure there's more to the story. It's not that it's humbly, I'm here, I'm listening, I am now coming Back to this first chair. I've shown you everything. I'm now coming back to this first chair willing to take in more information that's gonna impact me, help me understand. And then the second thing is, I want you to use this phrase. The story I'm telling myself is the story I'm telling myself.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:29]:
Because as you do that with your spouse, you are humbly now revealing the process behind the scenes. Without demanding, it's my way. What you're doing is you're literally inviting them into the process and the conversation to impact your actions and your feelings. And if you and I can incorporate this in our most intimate of relationships, it can begin to spill out into every single relationship that we actually have. And this little interpretive key of this path to action, I think can greatly transform our relationships.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:09]:
Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:09]:
Wow.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:10]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:10]:
That was good.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:11]:
That was really good. I don't know what I keep doing with my hands.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:14]:
I know. You're communicating.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:16]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:17]:
Anxiousness.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:18]:
Yeah, clearly. Blaine, Adrienne, what do you think? Do you think we communicate well?
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:24]:
I think so. I think so. I think we've learned how to communicate well. I liked what he was doing there. Where we see, we hear, and then we tell the story part. That one really stood out to me. I think we learned quickly how to tell our story in a safe way. Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:43]:
When we start, like, let's say, conflicting and fighting, we learned quickly to express our emotions because we think that we're in a safe place. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:53]:
I will not.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:54]:
Okay, so you agree? I agree, but, yeah. So that idea that you tell the story in your own mind and. And portray something, I think is crucial when you can stop. He says, just stop it and start thinking about it, about what you're thinking about, why you're thinking about it. So.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:11]:
Right. Because generally speaking, if we change our feelings, we can change our actions.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:16]:
Yeah. And that's the biggest thing. Yeah, absolutely. So I've noticed that when you communicate some feelings towards which I do a lot. Me, for example, let's say I'm out on the golf course. Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:30]:
Let's say that you probably are.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:33]:
Once in a while, I'm out there, let's say, working, because that's what it is. And you would be at home wanting me to come home and help with the kids.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:44]:
Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:45]:
And you would maybe see what I'm doing. Or that story in your head, what would that look like? Because it's maybe not quite parallel to the one I have in my head.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:54]:
Okay. So you are at the golf course, and the story I'm probably telling in my head is that you're just having fun so that you call it work, but really it's not.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:05]:
Right. So then what do you feel?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:07]:
I think I feel a little bit of resentment because maybe I don't feel like I'm having fun all the time at home when my primary job right now is to take care of the kids and do the housework. And maybe. Maybe I feel like my. I don't have as much of a purpose as you do, or like I just don't have as fulfillment. Much fulfillment as you do because for you, you always say you never work a day because you live, love your job. You feel like you're really walking in your calling. Sometimes I don't have that same feeling.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:43]:
Right. So then how do you act when I come home or not yet come home?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:47]:
Right. I get angry. I take it out on you. Like, I don't know, probably.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:53]:
So now when I'm golfing, you can then tell a different story.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:57]:
Be like, he's working hard to provide for our family, even though he's having fun. There's nothing wrong with that. Actually, I would prefer him to enjoy his work because then he comes home a much happier man.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:08]:
And then I remember back to Donna. We've talked about Donna. When you started to respond to me in a good way, exciting way, like, hey, I'm proud of you guys. Always want respect. Hey, I respect you. Way to provide for us. I want to come home faster. Now we've gone through this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:27]:
I'm excited to come home regardless. I understand better what you're feeling. And I feel a little bit of guilt when I do come home. But then I shouldn't, I shouldn't. Maybe because I should.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:38]:
I don't know. It's probably not bad.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:39]:
Something to think about. Sure. But because of the response, I start feeling guilty and then I gotta go home. But then do you jeopardize work to do that because of this? You know, that sort of thing?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:49]:
So work, life, balance.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:51]:
It's communicating, actually.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:53]:
Oh, that's what we're talking about. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:54]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:54]:
So anyway, I think something that has really stuck out to me that I heard. Heard someone say before is that feelings don't dictate your reality. And just to live in that lens of like, okay, yeah, like, this is how I'm feeling, doesn't mean it's true, but it could be an indicator of something deeper. Or parts of it is true, but doesn't mean it's the truth. And then if you live by just your Feelings. It's just messy. It's not gonna go good well for you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:24]:
Yeah. And the fact that you're communicating your frustration of maybe lack of purpose or things like that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:30]:
Right. If you can see, like, the deeper need that I have, you can help me work through that instead of this, like, surface level reaction that's come from these deep feelings.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:42]:
And I can make you a priority. More than maybe I had. Or now I think we are now.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:47]:
You really do. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:48]:
I'm aware of your comedy desires.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:50]:
Oh, yeah. You're my biggest cheerleader.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:52]:
Right. And that makes us both happy.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:54]:
I think so. Cause then we have a united vision or purpose together. And I think that one of the big goals of marriage is to make your spouse be a better person and achieve their dreams, push them for more.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:10]:
Which it's cool to say that. That we're kind of communicating what you're wanting, What I'm wanting. Realizing what is reality, what we can get into, what we can't get into just yet. And then strive towards it together.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:24]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:24]:
And there is in communication. That's fun.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:27]:
Yeah. Not that we're always, like, perfect at it. Our wires get crossed for sure.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:31]:
Oh, yes. Yes, they do. That was fun.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:35]:
Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:35]:
Just the two of us doing this.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:37]:
I know.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:37]:
I wonder if the people liked it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:39]:
But we'll never know.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:40]:
Okay. Well, that's it for today's podcast. How does friend Kevin sign us off? See you next time.