Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change. The odds for marriage and family were never meant to be a game of chance. My name is Kevin Thompson. Hey. Today we're gonna look at two very specific words to such an extent that I want you to do what I have actually already done in that I took a post it note, and there on my computer screen at the office, I've listed these two words just as a reminder to me of what it is that I'm supposed to do now as a husband, what Jenny needs from me, and then beyond that, actually what my kids need from me, what other people that I'm in a relationship with at work and other places need from me as. Here's what I want you to do. Take a post it note, write the word attend and attune. Attend and attune.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:42]:
If you and I can take these two words and apply it to our marriage and then our parenting and then every other relationship beyond that that we want to, it can have a drastic impact on our lives. That's what we're going to look at today. Hey, before we get there, don't forget, go like subscribe, listen on Apple, Spotify, make sure you subscribe. YouTube, ring the bell. We're also part of the Thrive Podcast network, so check out my friends and coworkers. Leslie Morgan. Am I doing this right? Mark Clark, the Mark Clark Podcast. If you want a little bit more spiritual depth, the Bible study where I'm often a guest, those are all there.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:19]:
But this has changed the odds. So let's talk about marriage. Attend and attune. So Kurt Thompson, the great Christian psychologist, psychiatrist, says we all come into the world looking for someone who is looking for us or looking for us, to us. So we all need to be seen. This is how God has actually created us to be to such an extent that if we feel unseen that a good amount of negative consequences begin to express themselves in our lives in part fight or flight, Freeze fawn will begin to kick in. We are meant to be seen. And to the extent that we are seen, loved, valued, appreciated, the human heart, the mind grows, develops, matures.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:00]:
We tend to respond in very appropriate ways. But when we feel unseen, a whole host of negative consequences kind of come from that. So the question is, how do we do that? How do we accomplish that for ourselves? How do we assist others in doing so? And that's where these two words come into play. To attend and to attune. So to attend to somebody means I'm gonna be physically present for them. And so think about it. If I'm Attending a concert, I am there, but I'm not just physically present. I'm emotionally engaged in what's going on.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:36]:
In the same way that we would attend something, we need to attend to our spouses, that we're going to leverage our physical awareness and well being to who they actually are. So to attend means a presence, and not just a physical presence, an emotional, spiritual, mental, all those things. Although physical is very important as well. And then to attune now means I'm going to pick up the vibrations of what is actually happening. If you were to tune a guitar, right, you're going to get it zeroed in. Exactly. Tuned in where it needs to be. What does it now look like for me to attune myself to my spouse, to recognize what's going on below the surface and then begin to meet her exactly where she is beginning based on what it is that she needs? And to the extent that you and I can attend to our spouses and attune to them, then I think they will feel felt, we will feel felt.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:33]:
And it has a whole host of ramifications of what that means in the midst of our relationship. So let's begin to kind of break this down and see what this looks like. So let's start with this idea of attending. So this is being present. Now Gottman is gonna talk about what it means to turn toward our partner. So attending to your spouse means giving them your full attention and being mentally and emotionally present. And so it means that we're going to notice our partners, we're going to recognize what their needs are before they maybe sometimes even communicate them. We're going to see their feelings.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:10]:
We're going to recognize, as Gottman said, whenever they make bids for us. So John Gottman talks about bids for attention. Or whenever I try to get Jenny's attention, I might say, hey, look at this. Or I might send her a text or a touch of some sort of. And in that moment I'm asking for a responsiveness from her. And Gottman calls those bids for attention. And one thing that he learned and found in the 7 Habits for Making Marriage work, he talks about what he calls the masters and the disasters. And he said those who master the relationship, they become masters of bids of attention to the extent that whenever their partner makes a bid for their attention or they make a bid for their partner's attention, and about eight out of 10 times they will reciprocate.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:54]:
Now, notice it's not 100%. You can't always be 100%. But most of the time that is reciprocated. Whereas for the disasters in a relationship, only about 3 out of 10 or 4 out of 10 actually respond to it. And what that begins to train your partner to recognize is, I don't know if my spouse is going to respond to me or not. So I actually begin to make less bids for attention in what's going on. So these are another way to look at. These are bids for connection that we're all needing to connect with each other.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:25]:
And you and I will reach out on occasion to get that attention, to get that connection that we need. How does our spouse respond to that? And then when they reach out for us, how do we respond to them? If I'm attending to them, I'm going to see those bids in a far better light than then. If I'm not attending to them, they might make bids of connection. I may not even recognize what's going on. So let's look at Gottman and then Sue Johnson, kind of what they say on this topic. So one thing Gottman talks about is the importance of turning to each other rather than turning away. So healthy couples, whenever they have chaos or crisis or just, I think, just for me and Jenny, just throughout our day, we continually try to turn toward each other. An ongoing text message conversation.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:12]:
I read a a stat this morning that couples who text throughout the day, even if it's just sending memes, feel far more connected than those who don't. Now, in some professions, you can't do that. If your wife's a teacher, maybe she can't text throughout the day. If your husband is traveling, maybe he doesn't have that freedom. But for many professions, you really can send these little touch points. And those couples that do that feel better connected. But one thing that Gottman says is in unhealthy relationships, they tend to turn away from each other and toward a friend, toward a co worker. So I talk about friends, partners and lovers.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:46]:
Who's the first person you tell good news to? Who's the first person you share a concern with? Do you turn toward your partner or do we tend to turn away? So Gottman talks about that, but then Sue Johnson talks about, she has this little anachronym called R. Are you there? Are you present A, R, E? And so it's the idea of are you going to be accessible to your spouse? Responsive and engaged. So accessible means they can get to me. Responsive means I'm going to now turn my resources toward them and then engage means they now have the full capacity of who I am. At work in whatever issue they actually have. And so you can see spouses across the board who struggle with some aspect of that. Some aren't accessible, that no matter what I do, I can't get my spouse's attention. Some are accessible, but they're not responsive.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:41]:
I might have access to them, but they're just going to brush me off and that's going to communicate now that I'm not important. Others, they might respond, but they don't actually fully engage in the issue. They aren't mentally present. They don't leverage their resources for me. Or sometimes they don't have any resources that they can actually give me. And Johnson talks about that whenever you are there for each other, whenever you are accessible, responsive and engaged, it goes a long way now to transform the emotional content of the relationship. And we attend to each other sometimes in that way. Another aspect about attending to your spouse now I think is just these daily habits, or one thing I talk about in my book coming out next year, the Creation of Us are these daily rhythms.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:28]:
So what are the daily rhythms that you've created to make sure that you have space to attend to your spouse, to be physically present? So as I'm shooting this, we just came out of a few days of a meteor shower. And so one of the things that Jenny and I did, we talked about how old we're getting now, that this is what we do. But at the end of the night, we're on the West Coast. There's nothing on television. Football hadn't started yet. Whenever we're shooting this. And so we would go up to our deck and just look at the night sky and watch these shooting stars. And sure enough, we found a good number of them.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:58]:
I never knew how many satellites were present, but it's just this little rhythm that we've had over these last couple nights. It'll change because the meteor shower is over. But that creates the space for us now to be with each other. Technology turned off, nothing really going on. And now we're connected. I said before, the most meaningful kind of times of connection for me and Jenny are going on for walks. We know that we're going to have that time. So what are the daily rituals that you have created? Maybe for some it's breakfast.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:27]:
Maybe for others it's a 20 minute conversation. Whenever you get home, you're in the kitchen maybe kind of getting things ready. And notice this. The more busier your lives are, the more kids are at home, the actual more intentional you have to be about this because you can't just assume it's going to happen at our life stage. We don't have to be as intentional. We have to be somewhat intentional. We don't have to be as intentional about it because there's going to be space in our lives because the kids aren't harassing us at every moment. But even then, if we don't show some intention, it's very easy for me to just go and get on my computer on the couch and watch the game and write something and Jenny to be cooking something and then maybe go up to her office and work.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:08]:
And the next thing you know, we're living these parallel lives and there's never this connection point. I was talking to somebody a couple of weeks ago, a little bit older than what I am, and they just describe their rhythm after work, and I'm like, bro, in no way is that going to connect you with your spouse. When you're going to separate bedrooms, watching different TV shows, never really connecting. That is not a pattern now of health, and it's going to have a disastrous consequence within your own life. So we have to be physically present. We have to have space, habits, and rhythms to where we can actually attend to each other. So now we've defined attend. Let's define attune.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:49]:
What does it mean to now understand and to empathize with your spouse's kind of inward world? That's what it means to attune. In the same way that as you're tuning a guitar, there's a physical component to it, but there's something you're also hearing about how that thing is operating. Now. We want to attune to how our spouse is doing, how they're operating in this very moment. So attunement goes beyond just being physically present. It means genuinely connecting and understanding our spouse's inward experience. Julie Manano, in her great work Secure Love, says it means feeling with them, supporting them emotionally, and letting them feel as though they exist. In other words, it's an empathy in action now, a task that's being accomplished now, driven by our empathy, in which we're truly honoring and hearing and seeing and validating what our spouse is actually going through.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:52]:
We're seeing them. That's what it is. We really are seeing them. And basically it communicates, as Mananno says, that emotional attunement means saying, I am with you in this, and I'm not trying to fix you out of it. So I'm present with you, not just an outward voice trying to fix what is actually going on. So Think about what attunement feels like. Dan Siegel has long said that it's feeling felt. So it's feeling emotionally understanding that I am now being seen, being felt, being understood.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:30]:
Siegel says it this way. When we attune with others, we allow our internal state to shift, to come to resonate with the inner world of another. This resonance is at the heart of the important sense of feeling felt that emerges in the midst of close relationships. It really becomes almost like a harmony in which I'm picking up what the mood of my spouse is, and then I'm meeting them where they need to be met. And so if my spouse is as excited as can be, I don't come in all mopey and kind of depressed and downtrodden. I want to meet them where they are. If they are now going through a difficult time and full of sorrow, I don't come in with all energy and going, oh, get over it. It's not that big of a deal that's now living in a dyssyncrasy kind of what's going on, a division.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:24]:
But instead, I want to meet them where they are, and I want to be met where I am as well. And so whenever we begin to do that, we're responding now with a compassion toward our spouse. So what does this look like and what does it mean to attune in real kind of practice? Well, most of it is going to be listening. It's going to be this empathetic listening and understanding, not a defending of ourselves, not an explaining away of our spouse's feelings or emotions, not an attempt to fix what it is that's actually going on. It is meeting their heart where it actually is and wooing it now out to give it a space to understand that, look, your heart needs to be seen. I've got eyes that are going to see it. Your heart needs to be heard. I have ears that are now attuned and going to listen to what you're going to say.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:15]:
You need to feel felt. I am here to be that person. And you're creating a climate in which they can sense this emotional safety to begin to express themselves. And as we attune to them, that safety begins to draw them out in a way that's healthy. And what it basically does is it begins to validate their feelings. It doesn't mean that what they're feeling is everything by any means, but it means what they're feeling is what they're feeling. And I'm not going to tell you that you can't Feel that one of the things we talk about in our house constantly is how quick we are with each other to, to downplay what the other person is feeling and try to tell them. And so, you know, I might be eating something that I think is spicy.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:59]:
And my daughter goes, well, that's not spicy. No, no, no. It may not be to you, but it can be to me. And you don't get to define what I think is and isn't spicy. I don't get to define for you what is and isn't a true feeling, an expression. Instead of saying, oh, it's this or it's that, begin to ask the question, how do you feel that it is? In your opinion, what is this like from your experience? That's what we're looking at. Not that there's this one universal experience that we all have and this is what it is. And if you don't fit into what I believe it is, something's wrong with you instead to begin to say, here's what I see.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:32]:
What do you see? Here's what I feel. What do you feel? And it begins to validate your partner's actually expression and the life that they are now living. And so we're trying to match their emotional energy in where they are and think about it in this way. I think this is such an important concept that long before our spouses and our kids, probably even our co workers, need solutions, they need emotional safety. So our mind is so quick, goes to solving the problem and there are times that we got to solve the problem, right? You all know the old video of the husband talking to the wife and the wife has a nail sticking out of her head and he just like, it's a nail and she's, you know, she just wants to be seen. And I mean, it's an old joke, but there's some truth to that, that some problems do need to be solved. But far more likely what needs to happen is our brains. Instead of going to how can I solve this? We need to go to how can I see this? How can I make my wife understand that emotionally I am there for her and I want to hear what her actual experience is.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:38]:
I want to give her an emotional support. And then if on the other side of that emotional support, there's something I can do to provide a solution or to solve the problem, then great. But here's the deal. If I don't emotionally support my wife and I just solve her problems, that's useful, but we're going to stay disconnected. Whereas if I emotionally Support her. Whether or not I'm part of the solution or the solving of the problems is far less significant. Because if I'm emotionally supporting her and she can then solve the problems with, we are going to feel connected and yet our brains tend to go solutions over support. We need to start with support and then see if we can actually dig in to the solution.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:19]:
So think about how we fail to attend. On occasion we might say, ah, it's no big deal, Relax, it's not really that way. We invalidate what their actual experience is. Compare that if we were to actually begin to say, hey, I can see why you're upset. I hear that this is what's going on. I understand, I've been there. And so there's an understanding of what's happening. Julie Manono says this again, secure love.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:47]:
When people feel dismissed, they double down. When they feel seen, they often soften. So think about this. One of the things I talk about with people all the time is your actions are not necessarily leading to the outcome you desire. So many of us, whenever there's tensions are running high in a relationship, whenever we have a spouse or child that's struggling, what we want for them is for them to calm down. And yet the action that we take, desiring the said outcome actually takes us further away from the outcome that we want. And so we want them to calm down. So we might foolishly say calm down.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:25]:
Well, that doesn't result in that at all. Instead, what Mananno says here is it actually causes them to double down. Basically, their level of emotion that they're currently expressing is not coming across to you. And when you diminish it, it means I'm going to have to double down now I'm going to have to raise my emotions even more. So I'm going to do the exact opposite of what you want me to do. And yet what is the action that would lead to the outcome that I desire? If I will validate their feelings, if I will see their feelings and their emotions that they're actually going through? Most of the time whenever we are seen, we soften. And as we soften now, we're experiencing the outcome that we actually desire. But it comes through an action that often doesn't come to mind.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:09]:
So Gottman actually understands the importance of this word. Attune is so important he's made an anacronym that we can actually look at of what it means for us. And so he would say, take the word attune a T T u n and he would say, all Right. We need to be it's awareness, it's turning toward tolerance, understanding, non defensiveness and empathy. So to attune, I have to be aware, I have to see something that's going on. Instead of turning away from my spouse, I need to now turn toward them. There now needs to be this level of tolerance where I'm not going to come with this judgmentalism or these demands of, of how it actually has to be. Instead, I'm going to have this understanding of the shared human experience.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:00]:
I'm not going to get defensive because it's not really about me, it's really about them. And then I'm going to have this empathy that I'm going to come alongside of them and share in what is actually going on. And as we have this, as we attune in that way, with this awareness, turning toward tolerance, understanding, non defensiveness and empathy, it actually begins to build, notice this trust. So one way you can look at attending and attuning in a friend, partner and lover kind of description is that this is going to be key elements of what friendship is all about. Because if friendship is built on trust, partnership, respect, intimacy, on vulnerability, then to attend and attune is now a way that I'm building trust. I'm showing you can put your heart out on the table with me because I know and you know that I'm going to treat it in a right way. And when you and I can begin to live in that kind of attending and attuning kind of concept, it can make a dramatic difference in the lives of others. So here's what I want to do.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:07]:
We've set out these two very big words of attending and attuning. I want to take a break now and I want you to think about how you can begin to incorporate these within your own lives, within your marriage primarily. But also notice this, this has a huge parenting ramification as well that if we can begin to apply these words. So again, take your post it note, put it on your mirror at the house, or put it on your desktop there at work, maybe put it in a note on a phone. Whatever's going to get your attention. And over this next week, let's begin to think about how can we better attend and how can we better attune to our spouse and at least our children. But you could also pick a co worker as well and begin to see one how difficult this is. But then beyond that, what are the emotional ramifications of that? And we're going to cut this episode right now as part one.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:02]:
And we'll come back next week and we'll begin to look at what is the neuroscience that's going on behind it. What, what are some practical strategies that we can begin to apply. But first, I want you to see the issue, and then we'll get into the detail of what's going on. And so if you and I can begin to attend and attune, it will go a long way to changing the odds of marriage. We'll see you next week.