Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast where marriage and family were never meant to be, a game of chance. My name is Kevin Thompson, and once again, without Blaine and Adrienne. Summertime. We'll get back into the fall. They'll come back. Everything will be great. Hey, today we're gonna look at a study that's just recently come out that, to me, is fascinating, and it's answering the question, why do some couples fight better than other couples? And then in so doing, why do some couples experience a far better outcome than what other couples actually experience? And so that's what we're gonna look at today before we get there. Don't, like, subscribe.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:33]:
Change the Odds is part of the Thrive Media Network. And so go check out Morgan and Leslie. Am I doing this right? Mark Clark, the Mark Clark podcast, the Bible study with Curt and Dena and all the family of podcasts over there. We want to resource you in every way possible, and what a privilege it is to work alongside my friends. But today the question is, what is an often overlooked secret whenever it comes to fighting well, communicating well, and ultimately just having healthier outcomes? And so the Journal of Research Personality did a study and recently published it. And they found one thing that I don't think I've ever heard mentioned whenever it comes to the concept of a relational happiness and wellbeing, but it makes total sense whenever you hear it. And here's the basic headline of what was read, that it is intellectual humility that leads to better outcomes in communication, specifically in disagreements and fights, which ultimately then leads to better relationships and connection overall. Intellectual humility? Seriously? I've written multiple books.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:43]:
I've never used that phrase in any of the marriage books I've read. I've written. I don't think I've ever read that phrase in any of the multiple books that I've read regarding marriage. But it makes total sense that to the extent that you and I, and Jenny and I, since that's who I'm married to, communicate with an intellectual humility. So not a stupidity, not an absence of knowledge or understanding, but at the same time, not a pride, not an arrogance to the extent that we can navigate, that we can oftentimes communicate well, understand things, get through things, but when one of us begins to overvalue our opinions and in so doing to demean somebody else, I can hear within this almost a John Gottman kind of concept. So John Gottman, in his book Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, is going to talk about what he calls the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse that when remember Gottman, he can listen to a couple Talk and within 5 minutes predict with 95% accuracy whether or not this couple is going to divorce within the next five years. And one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, one of the things that he really looks for is this idea of contempt. Well, contempt now is the byproduct of the opposite of intellectual humility.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:59]:
Whenever I have an intellectual pride, it expresses itself as contempt for my partner. It puts me above them. It makes me feel like I deserve better than who they actually are. I become demeaning, disrespectful to them. I can't grow, I can't learn. I don't let them influence me in any way. And whenever you're communicating in that way, not only are you unable to solve problems, but now you're leaving your spouse feeling unworthy, unloved, uncared for, unseen, unappreciated, their own self worth begins to diminish, which actually then reinforces your own opinion about it. So let's just spend a few minutes to talk about this idea of intellectual humility.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:41]:
Do you possess it? Do you understand what it is? Do you possess it? Actually, that's hilarious that I just said, do you understand what it is? It's somewhat demeaning for me to say that, but do we comprehend what the topic is? Do we possess it? How can we grow within it? And then what are the benefits if we actually do this? And what are the downsides if we don't have this kind of in our relationship? So let's look at a basic definition of what intellectual humility might actually be. So intellectual humility is a willingness to acknowledge the limits of our knowledge, being open to new ideas, and then recognizing that we could be wrong. So let's break down that kind of three part definition. So intellectual humility begins with recognizing there are limits to our knowledge. So we see we don't know it all, we don't have it all, we don't understand the everything. That my knowledge is limited. And because it's limited, it means that based on just the information that I have, my opinion, my idea could be absolutely right. However, there are other things out there.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:42]:
There are other factors out there that I don't know, I don't understand, I haven't comprehended that if one of those came in, my opinion would actually begin to change. And so my knowledge is limited in every area of life. There's no area, even though there's some areas where I might have more knowledge and understanding, I might even be Able to play an expert on the Internet, but still in those areas, my knowledge is limited. So I begin right there with a premise that I do not know it all. It's an important concept. And then number two, now I'm open to new ideas. So because I don't know it all, because there is a limit to my knowledge and my understanding, I am now open to new concepts and new ideas because it's going to add to what's going on in my mind. If I think I already have everything, if I think I know everything, then I quickly shun and push away and ignore and demean any new idea that might come my way.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:36]:
Why? Because I don't think in any way that it can impact me or influence me. But when I know my knowledge is limited, well, the next thing you know, I'm open. What do you have to say? What is the latest research? What is the new kind of concept that might have been unearthed to some extent that could now impact me? And so intellectual humility now knows that I don't know everything. I'm open to new ideas. And then thirdly, and this is so vitally important to recognize, I could be wrong. I could be absolutely wrong in what I believe in this moment. And now you can introduce topics to me, ideas to me, where I would radically change my opinion if you can show me how I've gotten something wrong. This third piece, I think, has become so important in our culture because in so many ways, no longer do people recognize I could be wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:28]:
I think about in politics, this is the absolute worst. We are so confident about our way of doing things, about how we think is going to happen, that we just demean and mock the other side and think they're absolutely foolish. But the truth of the matter is I have an opinion. I think it might work this way, but I could be completely wrong. And maybe it works this other way, and maybe that would be more effective. One of the things that I think parenting has taught me, Jenny and I are so radically different in our perspectives and our worldview and how we kind of attend to the world that how we parent can be radically different. So Jenny now is typical kind of oldest child, oldest daughter, type A personality. Like it's going to be right because I'm going to make it right.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:12]:
So she's going to be a very involved, very let me tell you what to do kind of parent. I'm a pretty typical youngest child, man, laid back. And my general theory is it'll probably work itself out. We don't necessarily have to Invade in that situation. Situation, it will probably work itself out, stay very laid back, kind of low key. And then at the times in which we really need to force our way, then we won't have overused it. Well, those are two radically different ways of parenting. Without intellectual humility, I would think my way is right, Jenny's way is wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:46]:
I wouldn't be open to any evidence that might point to how she's right. And I would never even think that I could possibly be wrong. But parenting humbles you in a second. And so there are times in which I'll try parenting my way and it won't work. I'll be like, hey, Jenny, you try it. Then she'll come at it from a completely different angle and it will absolutely work. And something that I thought would be a disaster on the other side. There are times in which Jenny's kind of doing it her way and it's not working.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:12]:
And I'm like, hey, just back off. Let's just give it time, space, give the child a little bit of room, and let's see if they don't figure it out on their own. And sometimes that works as well. And so we have to recognize about all things that we could be absolutely wrong, even from a concept of faith. Think about this. There's an implication within the New Testament that an element of faith is actually doubt. It's not an absence of doubt. Instead, it's a belief in the midst of the doubt to recognize, man, I could get this wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:42]:
And so even me following Jesus is not. I'm not 100% to zero convinced that everything from a Christian standpoint is absolutely true. There are times in which I feel like kind of the. The father of the sixth child, which I say, jesus, I believe, help my unbelief. I have questions, I have doubts. Sometimes I wonder, am I getting this wrong? Am I leading people astray? And so we need to have that concept in all of life to recognize we don't know it all, to be open to new ideas and to recognize, not just, in my opinion, not just that we could be wrong, to recognize that we are wrong, that there is no question there are things in my life that I'm absolutely wrong about. The problem is I just don't know which ones they are. And so I'm open to your investigation, I'm open to your new ideas, I'm open to your opinions to reveal maybe the area that we're talking about is one of the areas in which I am actually wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:36]:
And so obviously we're Going to contrast now intellectual humility with intellectual pride. And so pride is going to be an overvaluing of myself in believing that I possess something that I do not actually possess. And here it is kind of an omniscient, kind of all wise, all knowing knowledge that ultimately belongs to God and to recognize it's not me. Intellectual humility, Notice it's not a demeaning of knowledge. It's not a concept of we can't really know, we can't really learn, or everybody has their own opinions. Not that. But at the same time it's not now overvaluing who we actually are and saying it has to be my way or no other way. So think about how this now plays out in the midst of marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:19]:
Someone has said that marriage is nothing more than a long term conversation. It's just a conversation that you choose not to end. And so I can say in many ways, Jenny and I, even as I filmed this, she's on a plane. And so we're in different locations, but we're still texting. We just have this ongoing conversation within our lives that you really don't have to say a hello or a goodbye. Because this conversation never ends. It started years ago. Whenever we were in college and began to date, it picked up some steam.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:48]:
Eventually we said, I do. And from that moment on, we have been talking and we're not going to stop talking until the Lord takes one of us, us to be home. And so if this is an ongoing conversation, intellectual humility, the intellect now brings something to the table, but the humility allows it to be placed properly and then gives space for our spouse to bring something as well. Whereas an intellectual pride now would be, this has to be this way, I don't care what you have to say, or I'm just not going to bring anything to the table at all. Instead, it's this beautiful balance of intense engagement without being overbearing. It kind of goes back to past conversations we've had about this idea of communication. It saves us from being both passive and aggressive. So passive means I disengage, I don't bring anything at all into the relationship.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:41]:
Whereas an aggressiveness is I force my way as a way to try to shut you up. Instead, an intellectual humility now brings something to the table and then invites you to do the exact same thing. And so whenever we don't possess this intellectual humility, several things can begin to happen. It shuts down all sense of curiosity, of learning, of comprehension, of understanding, of let's explore new things, which is Such an integral part, especially of romantic love, to have a curious kind of nature. I was listening to something last night, and one of the ways that was describing even the sexual union was as an expression of curiosity. That whenever we lose our sense of curiosity, one of the first places that expresses itself negatively is actually inside the bedroom. How God has created us to relate to each other sexually is a form of curiosity. It's a form of exploration and the concept of a secure love.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:46]:
We are curious, we explore, we experience new things. But whenever that gets shut down, it takes a great shot at our life of intimacy. So it shuts down curiosity. We stop learning from each other. So no longer is Jenny building me up, and I'm building her up, and we're actually better together because she brings things to the table. That helps impact me and influence me. An intellectual pride prevents me from learning from anybody else. Because I look at them in a contemptuous kind of way.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:15]:
I think I know better than them, and that stops growth. And then finally, we confuse conviction for correctness. Here's an evidence of somebody who is full of intellectual pride. They're extremely confident, and they confuse their confidence. For now being correct and confidence and correct are two different things. Matter of fact, maybe you've heard the story before. Years ago, was talking to an umpire, and I was mentioning on a close play. He really came in and just gave it an emphatic year out to make it very clear that he knew what the call was.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:52]:
And he was joking with me later, and he said, yeah, when in doubt, you pump them out. And so the whole concept is the more doubt an umpire has about the call, the more he has to project a strength that he actually doesn't have. Whereas if he's 100% confident about the call, he can calmly say, you're out or you're safe and not worry about it. Because he knows what the call is, no matter what anybody else begins to perceive. And so one of the great signs now of intellectual pride sometimes is a cockiness. It's a confidence, it's an assuredness that really we shouldn't have. Because we know the limits of our own knowledge and understanding. That creates within us a humility to recognize we could be wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:34]:
Maybe I don't know the whole story. Is there something that you can actually add? Those are signs now that we should actually trust the other person if they're operating in that way. Whereas if they are demanding, if they are just overbearingly confident, that's a sign they probably really haven't thought through the issues, or they have an intellectual pride that doesn't open them up kind of to other conversations. So let's look now at 5 Signs of Intellectual pride in marriage and just explore within your own mind, does this begin to describe you or does it describe your spouse? And if so, how can we begin to work on it? So we've already talked about a little bit about this, but we'll put this now in list form to better understand. So, five signs of intellectual pride in marriage. Number one, always needing to be right. So it's not that you enter into a discussion or what we might call an argument in order to comprehend or to understand or to see a new truth. Instead, that discussion is entered into solely for one purpose.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:39]:
To win, to show how you're right and the other person is wrong. Sue Johnson would call this to find the bad guy. And oftentimes whenever you're trying to find the bad guy, what happens is the husband is trying to prove the wife wrong, the wife is trying to prove the husband wrong. And then even if you win, then you're still married to a loser. Well, that makes no sense whatsoever. And so arguments, discussions, fights, contentions, all those kind of things really should be a place to explore a better and deeper understanding. And yet, if you enter into those things with the idea of I have to be right, then that's an intellectual pride that's going to prevent a connection within the relationship. And yet some of us have grown up in backgrounds in which the only way you had value was if you were right.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:27]:
Which means whenever you enter into that spat with your spouse, what's happening in that moment is your childhood is kicking in and you're thinking, the only way I can have value is if I win this. And unfortunately, it's a fool's gold because it doesn't bring you value. And winning isn't what this is all about. It really is about understanding, not about victory. So always needing to be right, number one. Number two, dismissing your spouse's perspective, in other words, you just kind of slap them away. You talk about how that's not logical, it doesn't make sense, you're being too emotional. And literally you just excuse their whole thought or opinion or whole effort or energy to bring something to the table.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:11]:
You just slap it away as though it doesn't matter whatsoever. That's now a sign of pride. Number three, explaining instead of listening. So rather than actually kind of, I always describe it as ping ponging. You know, whenever you're playing ping pong, I hit the ball. And then you Hit the ball, then I hit the ball, then you hit the ball. That's the way a conversation should go, even tense ones. In the midst of healthy relationships, we are ping ponging back and forth, one talking and one listening and then switching roles and going back and forth to find an understanding.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:45]:
Some couples, when they fight, rather than ping ponging, they just now kind of machine gun to where one of them just starts pulling the trigger and they're firing as many shots as possible in order to overwhelm. Now what I would call is the victim. And the way that they do that is they're just constantly using words and never actually using their ears. And so if you are now spending more time explaining your side but never listening to the other side, that's a sign that you don't think they have anything of value to actually say, or you're trying to prove yourself. And that's a sign of intellectual pride. Number four, never saying I don't know. Again, go back to the original definition. Don't forget, our knowledge is limited.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:26]:
We could be wrong. So we have to be very quick and very willing to say in times, look, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is there. And if you're never willing to do that, then you're not being intellectually honest, which means you're not being intellectually humble. One of my favorite things to do, you probably heard it here on the podcast if you listened before, is to do Q and A's. And so almost after every marriage, teaching I do, and sometimes on the weekends, on Sunday night, I can do this as well. I can't do this at the other services because of the time crunch, but I'll open up to questions and people will often ask, Kevin, I don't see how you can do these Q and A's, never knowing what the question's gonna be. And I don't.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:05]:
I never know what the question is. Other people text them in, filter them in. I hear the question when the audience hears the question. But I always say this. Here's the thing that makes it easy. It makes a Q and A easy for me. It's the fact that I'm quick to say I don't know. It just gives me a comfort and protection.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:23]:
I do not have to answer every question that's given to me because I don't have all the answers. And so there might be some times that, you know, I don't know. And so I'll just quickly say, I don't know. Anybody in the room know or whoever's asking the question, do you know? Or I'll throw it to Jenny. Jenny, do you know? And if not, let's move on to the next question and just be very open and honest to say, that is not an area I feel comfortable speaking. That's a sign of understanding that your knowledge is not complete, that you could be wrong. And now it's showing the humility. If you never say to your spouse, I do not know, then are you really being truthful and honest with yourself and also with them? And so five signs always need to be right.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:05]:
Dismissing your spouse's perspective, explaining instead of listening, never saying, I don't know, and then finally using knowledge as a weapon. So instead of using knowledge now as a pathway to connection and a doorway to do that which is right, you use it now as a weapon to win the fight. And so you bring the data, you quote the biblical verse, you go back and show the spreadsheet, and you put it down on the table and say, see, this is it. And now it literally is a weapon to defeat your opponent. Rather than information and intellectual concepts being a pathway for us to figure out what is the right way to go about it. And here's the truth about all five of those. All five of those. We have elements within us, but then chances are there's one of those that you kind of lean more toward than the other.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:57]:
And for me, it probably is the needing to be right. I don't know what it is about my personality type or kind of how I was formed in any way, but there is this sense that if you're wrong, you lack value. And so while I'm quick to say I don't know, I don't think generally. I dismiss my spouse's opinions. I listen. Generally speaking, I try not to use knowledge as a weapon. I am quick sometimes now to try to need to be right, because if I'm wrong, who am I? So you need to recognize of these, which is your tendency. And as you begin to recognize it, then whenever you're in the midst of a tense discussion or conversation, you can kind of begin to say, oh, you're going down that path that you actually don't want to go down.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:44]:
Be very careful. So now the question begins. If we can develop a concept of intellectual humility within our relationship, what would it be? The byproducts of that? What would be the. The state of our relationship if we can actually bring this to the table, both of us? So here's a couple things of what intellectual humility does for marriage. Number One, he creates an emotional safety. So if I'm intellectually humble, Jenny knows that I'm going to protect her. I'm not going to use knowledge as a weapon against her. I'm not going to exploit her, manipulate her in any way.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:23]:
I'm not going to demean her. Instead, I'm going to woo out of her the fullness of who she is, her heart, her soul, her gut, her mind, and allow her to place that on the table in a way that could impact me rather than hurt her. And so that safety now creates a vulnerability, a protection, I would say safety is probably built on trust and respect, which, as we talked about in friends, partners and lovers, trust and respect creates a climate where vulnerability can actually begin to take place. And so we want to make sure that our relationship is extremely safe, not just physically, although that's important emotionally, mentally, spiritually, that there's a safety that's there. It also encourages growth and learning. So if I don't know it all, I got things to learn. And if you don't know it all, you got things to learn. And so in some situations, you know and I don't.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:18]:
In other situations, I know and you don't. In other situations, neither one of us know, but together we can begin to learn. And there's few things as powerful within your most intimate relationships as growth together, because now it gets you moving in the same direction. You're changing, you're developing, you're evolving, but you're doing so in tandem. And so it's a tremendous possibility for what that can do, which means that, number three, it allows both partners to evolve. And so the ideas of what does intellectual humility bring to us? Number one, it creates emotional safety. Number two, it encourages growth and learning. Number three, it allows both partners to evolve.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:55]:
An aspect of a healthy relationship is growth. If you're in the same spot today as you were a year ago, then your relationship is beginning to wither to some extent, because either your partner's growing and you're not, and then there's a space that's within that, or you're both in the same spot, which means that you're beginning to erode away in some of your connections. And yet an intellectual humility creates the opportunity now for this evolving to happen. Number four, it increases relational satisfaction and conflict resolution outcomes. Fact is, you can fight better if you have a humility about what's going on. You can bring important information and yet not demand it in any way. Your spouse can do the exact same thing. And the next thing you know, conflict has a little bit different feel to it and then finally it enables shared decision making and also mutual respect.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:51]:
So one of the great tests I think in many relationships health wise, is how do decisions get made. And I'm not this believer of one person has to make every decision or also I'm not a believer that one person has to break a tie. It's not that at all, but it is this concept that together there's a process by which together we can make important decisions and then on these secondary decisions we delegate to one another. Trusting Jenny's going to make good decisions over what she's over, I'm going to make some good decisions over what I'm over. We both have a right to speak into whatever we want to, but in some things just to delegate through life. She's in charge of some things, I'm in charge of others. But on the big issues we have to do those things together. And whenever they're not done together, that's a warning sign that this relationship just isn't right.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:42]:
I've heard far too many stories of decisions, life altering decisions being made by one spouse without ever truly consulting the other spouse. Or maybe they bring it up but then they never actually sit down to make the decision together. The one just makes it by themselves. And that is disrespectful, it's full of pride, it's arrogant and it's a failure of the relationship and the marriage. And so whenever you have this intellectual humility that creates a connection then it creates this ability now to make shared decisions where you need to and to move forward, not get stuck, but instead to make the best decision that you possibly can. Okay, let's wrap up this episode with just a few suggestions of how can you develop intellectual humility within your own life? Just some ways to go about it. And once again there's five. I see a pattern here of how this is working.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:35]:
Number one, practice saying I could be wrong. This is a great reminder yourself, but it's also an awareness to your spouse of what you already know. And so it could be that I do this too much, some have said, but I don't think so. I think it's a positive thing for me whenever I state my opinion to say, hey, here's what I think, but man, I could be wrong. I've often said with me that any opinion I give needs to be prefaced with the idea of I'm keenly aware that I could be totally wrong. I don't think I am. That's why I'm sharing this opinion, but I could be. And so if you practice saying, hey, I could be wrong, it's a reminder to yourself, but it's also an admittance to your spouse that maybe I'm not completely in the right here.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:22]:
And let's admit that. Let's both of us recognize that either one of us could be wrong. Number two, ask clarifying questions. So again, if you're explaining, you're never really asking questions, or if you are asking questions, you're asking them as though a prosecutor has a defendant on the stand and they're asking the question that they already know the answer to to prove themselves right and the other person wrong. And I'm going to win the argument. Don't do it that way. But do just begin to ask some clarifying questions. What do you mean by that word? Help me understand what that looks like to you.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:55]:
What does that feel like to you? Is there anything you think that I'm not getting or understanding that you would like to explain to me? Is there a question I should be asking? If you'll begin to ask these questions, what you're doing is reminding yourself, I don't know it all, and there could be more information out there that if I had it, my opinion would change. Well, how can I give other people permission now to bring me that information back? Whenever I was a lead pastor, a common question I would ask, especially in staff reviews, is I would ask the staff person, what's one thing people are saying in my absence that they're probably not saying in my presence? In other words, what is it that everybody kind of knows but they're afraid to tell me? And just that question alone would open up some conversation to see what blind spots I had and what were some things the staff was seeing that I, as the leader, didn't have the capability to see. And those opening kind of clarifying questions can begin to breed within you an intellectual humility. Number three, read widely, especially viewpoints you disagree with. This could be the algorithm answer that's here. If you look at the algorithm on your social media, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, YouTube, whatever it is, they are now engineering something to make you watch it for as long as possible. And generally the way they do that is to create outlandish kind of scenarios and to normalize them in a way that enrages you and piques your curiosity, but not a curiosity to cause you to question your own self, but instead a curiosity of how could that other side be so evil and so literally what they will begin to do is they will streamline a very specific feed to your phone to ingrain within you a belief about the other side that actually isn't true. Well, how do you combat that? The way you combat that is you intentionally set out to see what's the best argument on the other side.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:57]:
And I want to read from that person. You see, here's what we so often do. If it's us versus them, we tend to take what is the worst example of them and we elevate that worst example to now typify all of them. And then what we do on our side is we take what's the best example of us and we use that to typify what all of us look like. And now we compare the best of us against the worst of them, and that's how we come to our conclusion. Well, that's an unfair way to fight. I would say it's unfair biblical way to fight. Instead, if we are to honor our opponents, if we're truly to love our enemies, then what we actually need to do is say, what is the absolute best argument for the other side? Who is the most noble, the most honoring? The person I respect the most that holds a differing opinion from me.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:44]:
And I want to give them space now to speak to me. And that's never a person that's going to show up in your newsfeed. That's never a person that's going to show up in social media that these companies that are trying to make money, money off of us are never going to feed that person to us. There's a reason Tim Keller generally was not picked by news outlets to be the voice of Christianity. Why? Because he was too thoughtful. He wouldn't spark controversy. He wouldn't irritate what was going on. Instead, he would just humbly lay out the viewpoints of Christianity while very openly listening to what the other side has to say.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:17]:
He didn't play well on social media because he couldn't make them money. But that is the way that you and I need to process through life. And so one way to do that is let's intentionally seek out voices that differ from us, but voices that we can actually respect on the other side and will show us that even if we don't agree with them, they themselves are not evil. That viewpoint doesn't necessarily mean that somebody is evil. Let's understand what's actually going on. Number four, reflect on past times in which you were wrong. If you have a difficult time reminding yourself that you could be wrong, just reflect on past times in which you actually were wrong. And if you don't know of any, then I would probably call a counselor and get help because you're siding toward a narcissism that is exuding losing all sense of reality.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:03]:
If you can't think about times in which you have been intellectually wrong, you don't have a good self awareness of who you are. But for most of us who can think about times in which man our opinions were radically wrong, remember those things and remember the confidence that we had. I heard one writer talk about what does it feel like to be wrong? It feels like being right whenever you and I are wrong. But before we know that we're wrong, we have a confidence that feels the exact same way of what being right feels like, even though we're wrong. And so we need to remind ourselves of these places and these times in which we have gotten things wrong. And that in and of itself will then assist us to recognize we could be wrong in this situation as well. So five Ways to Develop Intellectual Humility Number one Practice saying I could be wrong. Number two ask clarifying questions.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:54]:
Number three read widely, especially among viewpoints that you disagree with. Number four reflect on past times you were wrong. And now number five, let go of needing to win. It comes back to this basic concept. What is more important to you? Is it winning? But it is actually connection with your spouse because whenever you win, you might be proven right. You might get your way, but your spouse feels as though they've lost. And that in a marriage relationship is never victory. Victory instead is when whoever's right doesn't matter.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:28]:
The question is what is right and how can we move forward together? And together, if we can both move toward what is right, then together we have won in marriage. I can never win if Jenny has lost. It just doesn't work that way unless we both win. Neither one of us are winning and we need to have now that mindset. One thing we might talk about in future episodes, especially whenever we get Blaine and Adrian back here, is we might look at how different personality pathways and types might struggle with this more than others. Where some might not struggle with intellectual humility as much as others. Some you think about in the old kind of typical enneagram kind of concept. Somebody with a more agency outward kind of enneagram 8 mindset might struggle a little bit more with this.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:13]:
Somebody with a more certainty inward. Enneagram5 might struggle. Somebody with a bonding kind of dyadic viewpoint that it's very important what they project an enneagram3 might struggle with this a little bit more than some other personality types and pathways but all of us because of how pride plays within us all of us are tempted at times not to have an intellectual humility. And what the study now has begun to show us from the Journal of Research Personality is that a cost comes with that. That when you and I do not show an intellectual humility we will fight worse, we will be more disconnected, we won't be able to grow and move forward. But whenever we can show an intellectual humility not downplaying our knowledge or information but not overvaluing it or over believing in ourselves the byproduct of that is we fight better, we have better connection, we can grow and we can begin to move forward. And if you and I can learn to connect better even in the midst of the tense times that will go a long way to changing the odds of marriage. And I can't wait to see you next time.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:16]:
We'll see you then.